Importazione la mia moto dall'Inghilterra in Italia

[fatbob]

Ciao a tutti! Sono inglese, non parlo Italiano perfetto ancora allora ho usato Google translate. Spero che va bene...

Qualcuno ha qualche esperienza recente (post-Brexit) nell'importazione della propria moto dal Regno Unito all'Italia?

La moto è una BMW 1200GS che ho comprato nuova nel 2008. Stimo circa 6000 Euro, ha fatto circa 50000 Km ma non è in ottime condizioni perché ha molta corrosione.

A parte il costo della spedizione vorrei sapere quanto costerà importare e immatricolare la moto in Italia, in particolare se devo pagare l'IVA all'importazione. Ho la carta di soggiorno e il codice fiscale ma non sono ancora residente ufficialmente in Italia. Prevedo di diventare residente all'inizio di luglio ma vorrei importare la moto prima, se possibile. Se dovessi pagare IVA 22% e altre tasse non varrebbe il costo di importazione della moto.

Devo essere residente per importare la moto e non pagare l'IVA o sono sufficienti la carta di soggiorno e il codice fiscale?

Quanto tempo ci vuole per sdoganare e poi posso guidare la moto o devo prima passare altri controlli? Quanto tempo posso guidare con una targa britannica prima che sia necessario immatricolarla?

Grazie mille :)

[aspes]

credo che sia meglio vendere in GB la tua e comprarne una altra in italia. Le pratiche sono abbastanza complicate anche se non le conosco nel dettaglio.

[colosseo10]

prova a sentire er-minio (utente/moderatore qui su quelli dell'elica) dovrebbe saperne qualcosa

[Braunvieh]

Forse non c’entra in questo caso specifico. Un amico, dalla Svizzera trasferitosi stabilmente in Italia, ha “traslocato” la moto come masserizia a costo 0.00

[er-minio]

I've been through a similar process, but other way round, Italy to UK when I bought my HP2 Sport from BMW Roma and imported it to the UK (I've been living in London for the last 15 years).

I do agree with aspes.
Importing a bike to the UK (pre-brexit) was a pretty straightforward and cheap process.
Not 100% sure importing it into Italy is going to be as easy and cost effective.
Most Brits hate the DVLA, but they never dealt with the Italian Motorizzazione :lol:
Unless you are particularly attached to your GS, you might find it way easier to just sell it in the UK and buy another one in Italy. Even just selling a vehicle in Italy is a way more complex process.

Also, an UK-corrosion damaged bike would be impossible to sell in the future in Italy (they are not used to that type of corrosion we get here). Keep that in mind.

Just to answer a few questions:

You should be able to ride the bike up to 6 months (as an Italian resident) on its yellow plates. Depending on where you are insured... most UK insurers won't cover you for more than 90 days overseas. There is talks about shortening this to 3 months.
You can take the bike before becoming a resident.

I shipped a few bikes up and down, it is cheaper than riding them (but less fun) and it should cost between 350/450 quid.

You shouldn't pay VAT on a bike of that age and with so many kilometers. At least that was the case pre-brexit (I think the threshold was 3 years and/or 6k km).

One of the users here on the forum might have more information on the paperwork/cost for the full ordeal, as he does stuff like this for his job. I hope he spots the thread :)


Keep in mind the cost of a new LHD headlamp.

[fiorefiorello65]

Informati presso un'ambasciata italiana in GB.

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[fatbob]

I've been through a similar process, but other way round, Italy to UK when I bought my HP2 Sport from BMW Roma and imported it to the UK (I've been living in London for the last 15 years).

I do agree with aspes.
Importing a bike to the UK (pre-brexit) was a pretty straightforward and cheap process.
Not 100% sure importing it into Italy is going to be as easy and cost effective.
Most Brits hate the DVLA, but they never dealt with the Italian Motorizzazione :lol:
Unless you are particularly attached to your GS, you might find it way easier to just sell it in the UK and buy another one in Italy. Even just selling a vehicle in Italy is a way more complex process.

Also, an UK-corrosion damaged bike would be impossible to sell in the future in Italy (they are not used to that type of corrosion we get here). Keep that in mind.

Just to answer a few questions:

You should be able to ride the bike up to 6 months (as an Italian resident) on its yellow plates. Depending on where you are insured... most UK insurers won't cover you for more than 90 days overseas. There is talks about shortening this to 3 months.
You can take the bike before becoming a resident.

I shipped a few bikes up and down, it is cheaper than riding them (but less fun) and it should cost between 350/450 quid.

You shouldn't pay VAT on a bike of that age and with so many kilometers. At least that was the case pre-brexit (I think the threshold was 3 years and/or 6k km).

One of the users here on the forum might have more information on the paperwork/cost for the full ordeal, as he does stuff like this for his job. I hope he spots the thread :)


Keep in mind the cost of a new LHD headlamp.

Thank you for the information. Certainly if I have to pay IVA etc its not worthwhile. I am looking for the cheapest/easiest option, and I'm not sure if they are the same thing or not. The problem with selling the bike in the UK is that I am not there, I spend most of the time in Italy now. My wife is Italian ans he decided after Brexit and coronavirus she had had enough of living in the UK so we have moved to Italy, but I am still in a period of transition.

I don't think I would get much for a rusty 2008 plate which is not even running very well, it needs a full service. But better the devil you know, it hasn't given me too much trouble in 14 years and I think the rust is mostly cosmetic. If I bought another bike in Italy I don't know if I would trust buying one of the same age because you never what what hidden problems it might have, so I could end up spending a lot more on the replacement. The selling and buying process always costs money as well.

Who would you use for shipping? The best price I got was £575 from Chas Mortimer and that was last year.

How much is a new LDH headlamp?

Where would you buy a used bike in Italy? Probably have to be a dealer as I think a private sale would be too complicated and risky for me.

My experience of Italy so far is that it is very bureaucratic and difficult to get anything done, or even get a straight answer to what you have to do. I have contacted one agency whose business is the import of bikes but they don't deal with customs! They said about 400 euro for the matriculation. Chas Mortimer gave me their contact in Italy who deals with customs and they thought I would probably have to pay IVA but they are supposed to investigate further and confirm.

I also saw another old thread on here about someone buying a used bike in the UK and bringing it back to Italy because they were cheaper in the UK, although that may have been due to a favourable exchange rate.

Then there is also the problem of the UK driving licence no longer being recognised in Italy (although it is the same licence that I had pre-brexit when it was fine) but that is for another day. Damn brexit is a complete pain in the rear, whoever thought it was a good idea?

[fatbob]

The other thing I forgot to ask, if I manage to import my bike to Italy is it going to be difficult or expensive to insure? I am on the wrong side of 50 years old and also have an advanced riding qualification, my insurance in the UK was about £80/year!

[er-minio]

T
I don't think I would get much for a rusty 2008 plate which is not even running very well, it needs a full service. But better the devil you know, it hasn't given me too much trouble in 14 years and I think the rust is mostly cosmetic. If I bought another bike in Italy I don't know if I would trust buying one of the same age because you never what what hidden problems it might have, so I could end up spending a lot more on the replacement.

I see your point. Yes, it could make sense to keep it in this case.

Who would you use for shipping?

I shipped my GS to Italy to get it fixed (long story) a few years back + we shipped my mate's GS shortly after that (we then rode both bikes back to London) and the HP2 from Rome to London a few years later.

I use a small Italian moving company called Mastrostefano.com
They are very good. Not sure if their prices went up recently and with all the brexit changes, but might worth a try. Not sure they speak that much English - have your wife ready on the phone :)

How much is a new LDH headlamp?

Not sure. My HP2 RDH headlamp costed 400 quid... from BMW.
But for a standard GS, eBay is your friend :)

Where would you buy a used bike in Italy? Probably have to be a dealer as I think a private sale would be too complicated and risky for me.

This forum has a buy/sell section. It is limited to (active) forum users. I don't remember the requirements off the top of my head, but it is about one year being a forum member or a set number of messages.
Generally the bikes you see in here are a bit better and from more trusted people.

My experience of Italy so far is that it is very bureaucratic and difficult to get anything done, or even get a straight answer to what you have to do.

It is.
Also: especially around vehicles there is way more red tape, costs, paperwork, etc.

I also saw another old thread on here about someone buying a used bike in the UK and bringing it back to Italy because they were cheaper in the UK, although that may have been due to a favourable exchange rate.

Depends on the bike.
My HP2 came way cheaper at the time.
I wanted an ABS version and there were none in the UK. So that was my main reason for getting one in Italy. But at the end, after shipping and importing it, it still costed me less than buying the same bike used from a local dealer.

Apart from the headlamp and shipping, the full cost of importing the bike was probably a couple hundred quid... or something like that, not much.

Then there is also the problem of the UK driving licence no longer being recognised in Italy

You sure about that?
I do have an UK license (converted my Italian one ages ago) and had no issues in Italy with it. I think there is an agreement between the UK and rest of Europe regarding the driving licenses.
I hope they don't cock that up too :lol:

[RedBrik]

My 2 cents: avoid :)

I don't know how, but I can tell you for sure that it *will* be a PITA. Italian bureacracy is painful but somewhat bearable if you grew up with it. It's like one of those illness you get used to, because you can't do anything about it, and you even have days where you kinda forget it's there. For those who didn't grow up in Italy though, it must be the closest real life experience you can get to living in a Kafka's story. You will get plenty of it by living there already, I wouldn't look for more ;)

When I read stuff like this I already feel sick:

dichiarazione di vendita autenticata. Se il soggetto è già proprietario all'estero e ciò risulta dalla carta di circolazione estera, può essere presentata anche una dichiarazione di proprietà con firma autenticata da un notaio o da un comune o dai titolari o dai dipendenti delegati di uno Sportello Telematico dell'Automobilista (STA)

fotocopia di un documento d'identità/riconoscimento dell'acquirente
Se il documento è redatto in lingua straniera, deve essere allegata una traduzione in lingua italiana (tranne i casi in cui esistono esenzioni stabilite da leggi o accordi internazionali) certificata conforme al testo straniero dalla competente rappresentanza diplomatica o consolare, ovvero da un traduttore ufficiale.


https://www.aci.it/i-servizi/guide-utili/guida-pratiche-auto/importare-un-veicolo.html

It doesn't seem like you have to pay VAT/IVA, in that no one mentions you have to, but I can't find anyone explicitly saying you don't have to, either..

All in all, I guess this is likely to cost you at least 1k, plus many many headaches. Selling in the UK and buying a similar one in Italy is probably going to be much easier, if a bit more expensive.

I bought several vehicles in Italy from private persons, if you do this together with an agency the process is quite painless. For an estimate of prices you can look at autoscout24.it, here on the forum or on subito.it

[er-minio]

Yes, insurance in Italy is generally more expensive than in the UK.
Even though, the policies in Italy are more inclusive than the UK ones, to be fair.

There is no (recognised) things like RoSPA or IAM down south.

[slow_ahead]

...
Keep in mind the cost of a new LHD headlamp.

not to mention the swap of clutch lever and accelerator between the two sides of the handlebar...


Seriously:
I moved to Italy (from Dubai) not long ago. And I would have liked to move my bike (a gorgeous royal enfield) too.

Indeed I thought, initially, it would be easy to manage the Italian Complexity

Then, I delved into the bureaucracy, rules, norms, clauses, including the (many) hidden ones.

and this is the end of the tale: only thing I brought twith me:
https://5.imimg.com/data5/KF/OX/GLADMIN-35750916/royal-enfield-bike-duplicate-key-500x500.png

The (duplicate) key as a beloved memory, comfortably stored in my pocket.

I am strongly encouraging you to sell your GS in UK

At whatever price you may close the deal, I promise you, you are not going to waste t as much money and time as if you move the bike.

Moreover you will not lose the fate of our country hospitality, and surely your liver will remain at current size

[Animal]

...mah...secondo me...il vero problema....è che ha la guida a destra...........

:confused::confused::confused::confused:

[Bedo69]

English humour [emoji6]

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[Lucky59]

The other thing I forgot to ask, if I manage to import my bike to Italy is it going to be difficult or expensive to insure? I am on the wrong side of 50 years old and also have an advanced riding qualification, my insurance in the UK was about £80/year!

That's easily answered! In Italy all vehicles are insured according to a system that is called "bonus-malus". You have 14 classes, with the highest being to most expensive and lowest the cheaper. When you enter in the system for the first time you're put inexorably in highest class and that couldbe horribly expensive. The only way to "cheat" the system is if you've a close relative, member of your family group and living in the same house that enjoy a lower class; in this case you have the right to having the "Bersani decree" being applied and given the same, lower class of your relative. If you cannot apply for this Bersani decree, you're going to pay for your first two years not less than 800 euros per year. But could be even more........

But "bonus-malus" is not the only parameter that insurance companies use to fuck you: region of residence, age, previous driving records, type of driving (everyday, only w.e. etc) everything is put in the mixer and then spat out.....

[Lucky59]

At whatever price you may close the deal, I promise you, you are not going to waist as much money and time as if you move the bike.



More important: you CANNOT keep your original license plate in Italy for more than 90 days. After that, you MUST "nationalize" getting an Italian license plate that you're, probably, not going to get if the bike is rusty and not well kept (the Motorizzazione has to inspect thorougly your bike before giving you the Italian plate: lights, brakes, emissions, tyres, exaust, turning signals will be inspected and tested)

Listen to slow_ahead: not worth the time, money and loss of health.

[jjerman]

in this case you have the right to having the "Bersani decree" being applied
........
But "bonus-malus" .....

let's get used with italian straight answers :lol::lol::lol:

[Skiv]

I don't know how it works in the rest of Europe but in Italy the RC insurance can be stopped / suspended in the months in which the vehicle is not used, as long as you have a private parking or garage.

[fatbob]

Thank you for all the replies - in English as well, for the benefit of the dumb foreigner! Sadly not the answer I was hoping for.

I already sold my car in the UK which I would have liked to keep but decided that shipping it was too expensive plus the problems of being right hand drive. But the bike should be easy, not too expensive to ship, no RDH, no problem. Or so I thought. Why does everything have to be so hard?:mad: The Italian government is offering tax incentives to encourage people to move to Italy but they need to work on a few other things as well!

If insurance is going to be expensive I guess I need to look for something cheap and not too powerful. I found the GS was good on the open road but a bit of a monster in traffic and narrow roads anyway.

Is there any possibility of hiring a bike for a few months without it costing a fortune?

[fatbob]

More important: you CANNOT keep your original license plate in Italy for more than 90 days. After that, you MUST "nationalize" getting an Italian license plate that you're, probably, not going to get if the bike is rusty and not well kept (the Motorizzazione has to inspect thorougly your bike before giving you the Italian plate: lights, brakes, emissions, tyres, exaust, turning signals will be inspected and tested)

Listen to slow_ahead: not worth the time, money and loss of health.

The bike has been through the UK MOT every year and never had any problems. There are spots of rust all over the frame around the rear end but I think it is cosmetic, I don't think it has weakened the frame, as yet. When I bought the bike I was commuting on it 300 miles/week all year round. I bought it in November and by next spring it had rust. I actually had the frame resprayed (or replaced, I don't remember) under warranty but it just rusted again. The bike has always been kept in a garage. My car stands outside all year round, gets driven in all weather and is not rusty. I was not very impressed with the quality of BMW paintwork especially as it is an expensive bike and is supposed to survive anything. Just not the UK it seems.

[RedBrik]

If insurance is going to be expensive I guess I need to look for something cheap and not too powerful

that's one of the criteria going into the final price.

To get a feeling of what's gonna be you can play with this https://www.facile.it/

It's not necessarily the best offer you'll find on the market but it gives you a realistic idea of what you'll end up spending.

Buona fortuna :)

Ps: don't know about the UK market but I always have the impression that "older" second-hand bikes in Italy tend to be relatively cheap, as long as you avoid popular bikes like the GS.

They are, for instance, comparatively cheap to where I live, Germany, as Italians generally have a feeling that older bikes (think 10y and 50+k km) are basically going to explode around the corner...

[er-minio]

in English as well, for the benefit of the dumb foreigner!

No worries, we are ready to start mercilessly taking the piss as soon as you'll switch to broken-Italian :lol: :lol: :lol:


And, by the way, welcome to the forum!

[fatbob]

I do have an UK license (converted my Italian one ages ago) and had no issues in Italy with it. I think there is an agreement between the UK and rest of Europe regarding the driving licenses.
I hope they don't cock that up too :lol:

I am not sure about anything any more. Pre-brexit it wasn't a problem but now it seems everything is a problem. The last I heard (few months ago) there was no agreement yet between UK and Italy on driving licences. UK and other countries in Europe yes, but not Italy. My wife had an Italian licence, had it converted to a UK one and managed to persuade somebody to convert it back to an Italian one again on the grounds that the test was taken in Italy in the first place. In Italy it seems to be a case of knowing someone in the right office to get you through the red tape otherwise you're screwed. There seems to be a similar problem in banking as well, various banks say you can keep your UK account if you move to Europe, unless its Italy, or Netherlands I think, in which case no agreement has been made and they will close your account.

I believe I can drive in Italy on a UK licence for 1 year so I am really hoping they sort it out by then...but somehow I am not holding my breath. Following the principle of Sod's Law, whatever can go wrong will go wrong!

[Sanny]

si piu' o meno quello che volevo dire io...

ok ;)

va beh..intanto cambia il faro;)

[Panzerkampfwagen]

I promise you, you are not going to waist as much money and time as if you move the bike.

I am quite positive you mean waste.
We have waist champions here but our friend here did mention only his age,not his weight.


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[RedBrik]

He did choose fatbob as nickname tho...

[Panzerkampfwagen]

Uhm…

Is that a clue?


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[Panzerkampfwagen]

By the way, where exactly in Italy are you planning to move and settle down?
It might sound weird to ask but what we call burocracy (and it can be already troublesome) can turn into a nightmare according to the region you are going to be in.

Starting from insurance fees and ending up to frontline clerks and office efficiency.
Apart from wheather and food, I mean.


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[er-minio]

By the way, where exactly in Italy are you planning to move and settle down?

I'd say Monza, Lombardy. :lol:

[Panzerkampfwagen]

Half nightmare then.

Hahaha!


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[homar]

...mah...secondo me...il vero problema....è che ha la guida a destra...........


A parte le battute ma la cosa ha un fondo di verita' perche' nelle spese deve includere il costo di cambiare il faro o la lente del faro che e' fatta per illuminare il bordo strada e nel caso che importa la moto rischia di accecare chi viene in senso contrario quindi se non lo cambia non gli supera il collaudo alla MTC , e nel caso di BMW Italia cambiare il faro o la lente rischia di farsi male davvero .

[Lucky59]

In Italy it seems to be a case of knowing someone in the right office to get you through the red tape otherwise you're screwed.

Welcome to the country of "raccomandazione"! It's a fabulous system, when it works..........

Be aware: in Italy, to live comfortably you need lot of friends (or cousins, even better!) working in the right place.

[Lucky59]

To comply with Italian laws, you'll need to install one unit like this: https://www.ebay.it/itm/114548255256?hash=item1aab9baa18:g:HMYAAOSw0iRfw87 f&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA8Dexerlesx4KbIdlAUOBdyh796sLK %2BYooXBJqW8UZa0cpZpagEjsk3iFYmhWMOJzBf576RuMbO3aC XdYLcQYpbPNoROPDWm796aaNxP7OUR%2BukbHv8pvdEPEUqakw V%2F4%2F1X%2FkZ2IRDEHkBwEwCivup7KXKZQGTnHKZDlnZLLO FB0WDY5CNm%2BqiOBFZV15ZFperw803%2B%2BCKdMTfLa8t8bo GcZ4cbO9Jnna8NRd6I%2BH6KSKuAA%2BReBLI5jal6BCjr2iz9 5r%2FoVWfyhsTVoKshAEanjEnLw%2FSkZu%2BuxTB5Xi6hUR1m PCgXdDfU0Wwq7NuPuOw%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABFBMgN-s8Jxg

I don't know if those are approved and certified by Italian M0T (they are cheap Chinese copy of the original ones), if not you've to buy the BMW OEM parts................

[Cardanik]

As many colleagues already suggested you the best option is to sell it and buy a new one here.
After Brexit the situation is getting more complicated, my only suggestion is to ask to get the help of an expert agency (see as example: https://www.aciroma.com/importazione-nazionalizzazione-auto-moto-inghilterra-extra-ue) or you will get lost in bureaucracy.

[Cardanik]

Forgot to mention, if you become resident (for more than 60 days) you cannot drive vehicles with foreign plate.

[slow_ahead]

I am quite positive you mean waste.

Ecciaragione, ciai. Rimbambito, io, Ziocan!

Waste, corretto il post

(sul mio waist, belly, weight, e via discorrendo, meglio dimenticare)

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[Panzerkampfwagen]

“Ziokan”

Literally, “uncle dog”.

Though somebody should explain to our British newbie what the real meaning is.

Preferably from Veneto.

I am not.


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[Panzerkampfwagen]

Because he will probably need it a lot when dealing with Italic burocracy.


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[Panzerkampfwagen]

And BMW dealers. Just in case.


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[slow_ahead]

he will probably need itAggiungo, se servisse
Ziocantante
Ziocantantissimo

Uncle Singer
Uncle Singer a lot

[Panzerkampfwagen]

Exactly.

He will probably need them all.


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[Smart]

I just came across this ad

https://italianconnectionshcb.com/vehicle-registration/?fbclid=IwAR2Yc2uPRc7S6_--VVwwHLbwkcJUOwXuTfKGjyOB0-iVGjatQsIki6xTZUQ